we put ourselves in real scenarios it was interesting to see who actually got here . i decided to return to the subject to track down each gun owner who i'd met and photographed those years ago i don't know that but we are all. hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle serious years long catastrophe is coming to a close foreign backing of opposition and terrorist forces are in retreat in face eradication but the struggle just far from over the war is essentially won the

winning a lasting peace will be no easy task. cross talking syria i'm joined by my guest adel darwish in london he is a political commentator and author of the book the edge of war in beirut we have come a was a he is a political analyst and founder of the center of american troops dietrich studies in beirut and in damascus we have jamie mackie he is the syria commentator and co-founder of syrian digital media group all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate adele let me go to you the best dressed man in television love the bow tie of course adele you know we over the last few days we've seen a. whole series of diplomatic activity trying to bring some kind of closure to this very long and bloody and destructive conflict in syria it's. being spearheaded by

the russians and the iranians and the turks they've been in consultation with other players in the region including israel and also a telephone call between putin trump are the pieces falling into place go ahead adele well let's hope so we have. historic context. with the russian rule. to measure developments in the region would have more achieved one is the celebrated and now counter version and the iranian. control over the program and second the ending of the war in syria by defeating terrorism it could have ended in different way the russians the main objective as i can see is to keep the geographical integrity of one country of syria which is

on the objectives of the other says important. what happened between that phone call between mr trump and mr jordan's very important the superpowers because this can actually pull the strings on regional powers that might have a different edge and i don't want to second guess whether there is but it is very actually important that all the powers that come thirdly you mentioned iran and turkey the are the neighbors in the region and obviously there's a controversial role for iran so let's hope again some russian diplomacy would kick them into she can let me go to you in beirut to reflect about what i said because you know it looks like it is going to be the political will and i thought it was very interesting was the conversation between putin and trump here can trump fill any kind of obligation that he would like because his administration is very divided and how to approach the closure of this conflict in syria we still hear

this lingering assad must go i worry about that the political will on the west i think that putin wouldn't have come out with the iranians and the turks to be didn't think he had something more or less nailed down with of course assad going along with it go ahead come on in beirut. well obviously the american you cannot count on them in this because in the beginning they declared the war and and these feeder and those terrorist organization and they didn't fell for any commitment to the opposite they helped these this and that into the last minute and the war and i will come that we know for fact that they have been helping. as a certain route so here you really count what is taking place on the ground on the ground there is a victorious power there emerged from the confrontation again stacia basically the count beheaded by bye bye bye bye syrian by the russian by the rainy and now able

to move surgically removed at least militarily from from syria obviously there's a security and of it and there is the big question will the american rock was draw their forces because the government of president bashar al assad declare him as a legal entity so far american do not deal with that issue that mean there actually. they don't want the war to end supposed to be and they don't want the political process to go and they don't want the political process to continue as it's supposed to so there is a lot of doubt when it comes to america especially when it comes to don really you cannot trust what donald trump say today because he could change the dynamic of his tone but in the and i don't think a lot of people on the ground they can the american seriously they work in to

actually to the end to make sure that first they liberate all syria and then they go into another venue where they start the dialogue to have political discussions you know danny i would fear that you. and if we do get to some kind of peace process. the trumpet ministration will somehow take credit for it but what i do worry about here in adel mentioned in his opening comments is this approach to a. sovereign syria whole syria but at the same time we have the pentagon coming out and saying they're not leaving militarily any time soon that is another huge barrier to having some kind of peace process go ahead danny i mean absolutely but if you look at the groups the u.s. is working with and relying on to have their presence in syria and that is the the s.d.f. and the kurds the kurds actually have quite a consistent recent history of giving back territory to the syrian government and

i'm sure that in the wake of what is a quite victorious syrian military in his border and the russians and the iranians the kurds will definitely think twice about keeping some of these areas which will in the future continue to jeopardize the u.s. is its presence within syria i can't see the u.s. having forces in syria for a long time because the if you look at the trajectory of the crisis now and the nature of how the syrian forces were victorious the u.s. really has nothing to leave their troops in for because the majority of terrorism is almost on the way of being defeated and i think the u.s. is just doing this just to save face because we discussed donald trump on it from the syrian military airbase which was you know twenty thirty kilometers away from isis so he's not someone who's fought terrorism successfully within syria and what they're doing at the moment is just literally attempting to show the world that they have some sort of a symbolic presence because after the russians intervened in september two thousand

and fifteen they complete the balance of powers on the ground in syria has drastically began to change if you look back at the previous years in the situation in which the country and the government were actually end it was diabolical the half of the country was lost it was a it was defeat after defeat of the u.s. . plans for intervention and rebels and helping them and now you look at the situation it's it's a complete whitewash because yeah you've got one force on the ground in the syrian military which is now continuing to make advances and actually find some sort of military solution to this where you know danny on one thought that was no and done it was possible let me go to a down here because i think it's you know if you look at western mainstream media the united states is crushing isis in syria and there's no mention of you know iran there's no mention of his blog and if it is it's always negative there's very little mention of russia of course they probably committed human rights violations

it's really remarkable how this is being spun in western media go ahead. yeah it's quite laughable actually in full because i'm actually part of this western media but i think it's important issue to focus on a. until recently the americans specifically under obama the weren't quite serious about fighting terrorism fighting i said in fact of questions in the congress that some of the funding found its way and some of the weapons found it's only one of the web to eyes that learned the lesson of iraq. pulled out of must work with the russians because the other main force the in order to have reconsidered between different forces of course isolate these damaged areas they should have been left i agree with danny that the kurds giving territory for exchange for other political gains because you do not want to upset the

russians and the ricans the syrian president assad and the turks obviously the turks always suspicious of the kurds so they will give back the territory definitely for exchange of some political security and the role to play and here comes the lesson of iraq which is now descended into almost civil war and that the kurds we defeated i still about to fly it with this year are controlled government in baghdad so we do not want that to happen in syria quickly conciliation other things doing grid job conferences and we go this what we think of the negative american rules well at least better in the end maybe outside one of the thing and we got to go back to beirut here again one of the things that really bothers me when the last time we even had something remotely close to this there was a ceasefire the dominica read to and then the the u.s. attacked syrian forces i mean completely turned everything upside down all the gains that were gain up to that point were destroyed more mutual suspicions and

even hostility here are you worried something like this could happen because the u.s. is staying in there are they going to have to do something or leave go ahead. basically my my my ask them at the city and so far declare that the forces american forces are illegal in syria and the clear is still on and land so that by itself it's an obstacle to what the american basically tried to say they want to stay they have to mean they make an obstacle to the peace process the syrian actually insists and liberating all of their land and having all their land under their was just a question my asked them at the american wanted a piece of the pie and they don't want to leave easily from syria they're there are probably they're there they have their approach on the doctor had failed and called to stand because they're probably they bush. declared independent they didn't come

to his backing right my ass them and here they can a bush the current in syria and they can make it like again can i have my name as the man. that russia and i have to jump in here we're going to have to go to a hard break and after that hard break we'll continue our discussion on syria staying with art. the long hard sell you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the chicken

hawks forcing you to fight the battle. to stop trying to tell you that something gossiping topless. well the cost of advertising is how to make you on the cool enough and less to buy their products listen. these are the hawks that we along with our audience will walk a little. welcome to the wonderful world of blood donation i come here every three weeks to get my transfusion to be specific i receive immunoglobulin that my body gets and some bodies that i cannot produce that south around the world giving blood is seen as a symbol of generosity no one does this because it helps people it's just that one of the side effects is that i did this before i was more going to put the money on your car immediately you don't have all plasma based drugs today come from

a private company and are produced from paid plans from a small company you know a motor car computer what are the risks of a donation. then is proof that the frequency of pathologies is much higher in paid donations. if i was my. boobs over two years old he would go in the money and it's a drug and who runs the blood business. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered. we're discussing syria. ok dan let me go back to you in damascus ok we've already talked about the russian

rainy and turkish initiative here but let's turn it upside down the other side as it were here saudi arabia are they going to go along with this is israel going to go along with this. think so these are the other obstacles here go ahead danny i completely agree i mean i mean we can we have to separate the israeli interest from the saudi arabian interests but saudi arabia will continue to have it in transition stalled stance towards the crowd. yes and syria as it has done throughout because it's syria for saudi arabia is it's an issue of national security and the huge failures in saudi arabia from policy in syria have actually reflected so negatively on the state that it's now beginning to lash out regionally it's being to lash out in the media if it's even if it's turned a complete you know the arab spring peter if you look at it it was stopped in syria if if they are a spring managed to get rid of the syrian government this would have continued on

until we had a completely new middle east but it was stopped in its tracks and syria and that was the way the aim i mean syria was always such an important country regionally from a geopolitical level it was it was a gateway to iran it will have a huge strategic significance because of its border with israel and its influence in lebanon so saudi arabia won't stop until we get it considers it's completely bankrupt and spent in terms of the syria crisis griz's radius for example they have a very i would actually say precise aims within syria and that is to continue this . this kind of semi conflict on the borders between the jihadists and the syrian military and continue to target hizbollah targets within within syria but i don't think the israelis want more intervention i just think that they want to have a clear viewpoint of what's happening on the syrian side from the sense that hizbollah is their main enemy but saudi arabia will turn no stone until it

completely seeks the destruction of assad even though it's lost and that's the issue here saudi arabia has failed diplomatically because it's had no faith in diplomacy it would have at the start of the crisis heard a peace process or or a negotiation or a dialogue with assad all the radiance this wouldn't even happened but they chose this pathway in the end it ended in an absolutely stunning and embarrassing defeat for saudi arabia and its allies in the region which is why this proximity with israel. is present at the moment and that is to tend to the iranian influence in the region and ok. you mentioned you mentioned iran let me go to adel because it always goes back to iran here ok so what are the pieces on the board here we have the american military that says it's going to maintain its presence and it's not given a real justification except to keep make sure there isn't isis two point oh ok fine well being there might create it ok that's what usually happens ok and also we have

the israelis which i would say at the very least want to see a destabilized syria they can capitalize on that and we have the saudis that will not leave any stone unturned here and then we have someone like donald trump has already been said on the program he might change his mind after his golf game we don't know ok i find this adel to be extremely dangerous even though we have i think the pieces coming together to cede some light at the end of the tunnel but there are some people that want to keep the darkness there and go ahead and. if you have to you're careful not to second guess because we in the media unless really we have a whole picture sometimes we get leaked in fairly sure that it's fairly you know that's fair release of really and for now i've probably slightly disagree with that with where with that any on the saudi arabia serbia which wasn't in their interest for the so-called arab spring which i don't call it that way anyway to continue because they are stable monarchies they don't actually like that so stopping in

syria is in their interest now let's look into the american presence american press actually is not sanctioned by the u n unlike the russian which was invited by the legal un the cognized government of syria so the americans are in a weak legal point there let's look at to this over the visit to russia and meeting with president putin what action was agreed there something very interesting syria must have been discussed sure the mutual interests of the two the more destructive rules more qatar who would actually punching above their weight rather than saudi arabia and israel yes i agree i remember once and israeli officer to king me to the board there was a lever and said this is our front line with iran so they have the or who is have this insecurity they all has in the back of their mind rightly or wrongly that hezbollah wants their total destruction so there infelicitous largely different

from syria from saudi arabia whole we have seen their indian intervention because let's not forget the islamic revolution was for exports the three circles that khomeini want that so the second circle is exporting it to the arab countries where there's shia minority the give the shia to uprise we have the during the pilgrims problem so slightly different problems there as seen from syrian point of view and i'm almost certain this issue was. discussed when once a month ago maybe a visit more school and this some agreement must not be the beach ok i agree with you adele i'm going to come in. ok go ahead jump in the audience a point of the program go ahead just pretty quickly but in the sense that if you look at the region you look saudi arabia is this is iran iran's best ally in the region is syria a huge distance by huge miles so it's definitely in saudi arabia to be of interest from the inception of the so-called arab spring to make sure that this country has

huge problems and is in a period of instability because it's crucial for it for its own national interest in this prolonged regional war with iran so i would absolutely one hundred percent rest by the fact that saudi arabia wanted an arab spring in syria because if they didn't have that spring the iranian influence would be even stronger than it already is i'm not i think i see it i see it i see i see it. i think we're all we have maybe different different definitions of arab spring here let me go to camel here in beirut i'm really glad that adel brought up the visit of the saudi king to moscow and obviously they talked about syria here i guess what really interests me is that when one you recognize what your interests are pragmatically but then you see an opportunity and you want to throw the dice i think that's what bothers me because it is as danny is pointed out i mean if you look at the saudi foreign

policy the last few years it goes from one blunder from one catastrophe to another and there doesn't seem to be stopping even though they understand that they have these national interest visa v. has and syria here is saudi arabia to such a trustworthy enough partner go ahead in beirut. well obviously. not happy about what is taking place. they feel that they lost the battle of this big battle for years they've been supporting the opposition in syria they've been supporting the opposition or whatever the activity that was taking place in in iraq so now you have you have that road that a lot of these country were afraid that goes from top to lebanon can go through with with the with a victory because of the surgical operation that was done was supported by by having iranian by liberating liberating iraq and basically defeating

in iraq and now we have a major victory in syria so how much the sooty can do about this not very much they already put a big fight for it and basically they didn't know what did not win the fight so basically all they can do is just. maybe go to lebanon they tried to do meddle inside. of lebanon and they were not successful either i think the point for the cod is to make a compromise and well you know we would be really nice if a war in the air and yeah thank you thank you for four of them absolutely i'm glad you mentioned them and i delegate were rapidly want to time when i asked all three of you what about the future of assad because if you look at some of the communication coming out i guess for from sochi there is going to be political reform what does it mean to you because i'm sure it means something else

to the americans go ahead adele. yeah it's an interesting point actually the future of our side. historically a countries who want to play the regional mini superpower the never interested in destabilizing enabled because that is the blazes then have refuses coming to their own problems etc but they might want to install a vision that actually can pull the strings so they want to rule out a regime that supports and further the interest rather than destabilizing it and here comes the point about the peace process again if we look from a moscow point of view they did our support as a percent a the want stability agreed to integrity and graphical integrity of syria going to peace and obviously the legitimate russian interest because the american and your opinion expansion leaves only one business for the russian fleet

which is in five sous and latakia that has to be respected as field of interest and ok gentlemen rerouted i want on time i want to ask all three danny same question political reform what does it mean to you. it's an absolute must you couldn't have more political parties you could have a more liberal nature of of the ideology of the governing party but at the same time in a great position because he can play the kurds off with the turks or he says he wouldn't take. one i mean he can play that card. we don't want to jinx it but he has essentially one and it's been pretty if been convincing this world so what i would like to see as a syrian is more political reforms more free media and free speech and this to happen gradually in the sense that we're going to see some of this happening because people haven't fought for seven years in a fun or something this type of political regime come out ok i'm going to give you the last forty seconds in beirut political reform or does it mean to you forty

seconds basically this is a political process about democratic process i think we'll leave it to the people of syria i think assad has up their hand because he has a proving that he has the interests of the country and i think preserve the country the war continue and basically i hope their settlement political settlement. well just gentlemen after so many years the syrian people should finally be given a voice and finally given a chance to have peace here i want to thank my guests in london beirut and in damascus and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r t see you next time and remember. chancellor merkel is i think at least partially. responsible you could you could

say for breaks it and one could say she supported brakes which is good because with their policy he she made it easier for their use and locating and to leave. it to leave because base they could see how we are struggling with the with the policy of america and with the with the millions of migrants coming into europe and india and also maybe coming to you. she'll be. still dependent mile from the. independent. for that they wouldn't. own up but we will meet and they. were sort of my love and respect they like him to me or the now we. are the only. now at the.

hill i don't know him for that matter i see let him to make it what we have it would be in the marrow have got bigger of me. see he said when i lived in. the village of collect she has been nicknamed sleepy hollow because for some unknown reason its local residents have found victim to sleep. just being able to choose. how he ran their nation. and that's. sort of what i'm also going on with the course.

of so. many. from where did you do what we have. the wolf. this with all the new more. the what music. from my seat in there did you have both styles there off the bed to me. and she will let you know first of all that it will be. donald trump and turkey's president erda one agree to join the opposing both eisel and kurdish separatists in turkey. more than two hundred thirty people are killed

in an assault on a mosque in egypt's north sinai province that appears to be the deadliest terror attack in the country's history plus. panic on the streets of london people flee one of the city's busiest shopping districts after reports of gunfire. and a high security facility that strikes fear in the hearts of even russia's most hardened criminals we gained unique access to the black dolphin the nation's toughest prison he's here but some of the country's worst maniacs serial killers.